Beiträge von jlopez

Today I went to La Seu d'Urgell. Unfortunately the flea market is almost gone.

I have visited l'Escrit (that office that was once pictured here in this thread) and its owner was amazed when I told him that his business was known in Germany. He told me that his son found pictures of their machines in a Japanese website.

Even if the flea market has mostly disappeared, I found a place where I got some interesting items.

A couple of NES games

Three complete PSX games and the manual of Metal Gear Solid.

And a complete 3DS game.

In another place I found a calculator that I was searching for some time. It was my grandfather's but was damaged by dogs before I could see it. I have been fortunate to get an exact match but it cannot replace what's lost.

On the left my grandfather's calculator, on the right the one found today.

Zitat von Cartouce

Zitat von jlopez

#3: Tebeo #126

Tebeo was a Spanish comic magaziine, very popular during the 80s. It usually contained the stories those of the secret agents "Mortadelo" and "Filemón" and some other characters from other cartoonists. That magazine was so influential among the then young readers that comics are informally called "tebeos" in Spain. But the reason I took it was the last page of it.

I think, in Germany, the agents in these comic magazines are called "Clever" and "Smart" ...

MFG

Cartouce

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It's funny to know that they are known outside... but did they really called them so in the Deutsch translation?

Just for the record:

"Filemón" is a Spanish name, nothing special about it; isn't the most popular either but now even less due to the character.

"Mortadelo" is not a real name. Is a forced masculine of "mortadela". This word has no direct translation to English but according to Google translator it should be "Wurst" in yours. So it bears a name of something similar to a sausage because he is tall an thin.

It's sad when one finds that translators made only half the work and took a shortcut instead...::

Today, at the same site where I found the MSX-Basic beta videotape tutorial (I was searching for the missing part) I got the following items:

#1: Nintendo promo VHS "Alto Riesgo", 1996

Unfortunately, seems broken. Maybe with a donor VHS tape I could fix it.

#2: Hard disk drive

3 1/2" hard drive. The acquisition is so fresh that I still haven't got time to check its capacity, so I don't know how many megabytes it could store. Not very slim... very fat indeed.

#3: Tebeo #126

Tebeo was a Spanish comic magaziine, very popular during the 80s. It usually contained the stories those of the secret agents "Mortadelo" and "Filemón" and some other characters from other cartoonists. That magazine was so influential among the then young readers that comics are informally called "tebeos" in Spain. But the reason I took it was the last page of it.

I found strange for a Spanish magazine about Spanish comics to came with publicity from a Japanese comic. Comics from Tebeo are very lighthearted while Akira is dark. Being 1989 in Spain I could have expected Doraemon or Dragon Ball being announced, but not a pivotal genre-defining Japanese cyberpunk work. So I found it curious and brought it home.

After 3 months in transit and a complaint later my memories have arrived this same morning. They were expected to arrive a month and a half ago.

I think that it is not necessary to say that once I received them rushed its construction...

Then proceeded to its testing.

FFEF -> 48KB recognized!

That being said, I introduced a small error in the design of the board: about 1-1.5mm should be removed in order to place the bus connector. Otherwise everything is fine.

Regards

Zitat von escimo

Definitiv kein TDC (Torpedo Daten-Computer)

You nailed it.

When I first saw it I immediately checked some TDC models from different countries, but then I realized it was some kind of radio device.

Zitat von gpospi

Bei meinem P2-3A Rechner ist neulich das Original-Netzteil abgeraucht, d.h. die Netzfilter-Kondensatoren haben sich mit Knall und Gestank verabschiedet. Also stand auch hier eine Netzteilreparatur bzw. ein Tausch an. So wie bei den anderen Rechnern habe ich ein PC ATX Netzteil verbaut. Allerdings ergibt sich daraus bei dieser Maschine ein Problem, da nun die originale P1/P2-3A Tastatur nicht mehr funktioniert. Diese benötigt nämlich eine zusätzliche -9 Volt Versorgung, die ich aus dem PC Netzteil nicht heraus bekomme. Einen Versuch, ob die Tastatur auch -12 Volt verträgt wollte ich dann doch nicht riskieren. Also habe ich meine Ersatztastatur (samt Tastatur-Controller) aus meinem späteren "Bastel P2 Rechner" verbaut. Das Tastatur-Layout ist ohnehin wesentlich praktischer (z.B. sind die Cursor-Tasten alle am unteren Rand zu finden und nicht willkürlich über die Tastatur verteilt). Das System ist nun allerdings nicht mehr ganz original. Wenn ich mal Zeit habe, werde ich mich vielleicht doch näher mit dem Original-Netzteil bzw. der -9 Volt Versorgung auseinander setzen...

Sad to hear about it passing... Mine was less spectacular but you should see how do Alphatronic PC's paper capacitors burn, that's the real show . I saw that twice, the second time I even counted down as I knew what the outcome was going to be .

The good news for you is that you could still use the ATX to generate the desired -9V by either using a 7909 linear voltage regulator or a resistor voltage divider on the -12V line. I'd bet for the regulator as it would be easier to install on the ATX adaptor (if you are using overCLK 's). I am confident you will be able to get it working in no time.

Zitat von helwie44

Teilschaltplan Triumph Adler Alphatronic P2 5 Volt Netzteil

Ich versuche - um alle bisher wenige verfügbare Schaltpläne zur TA „alphaTronic P2 ... PX“ hier konzentriert in diesem Thread abzulegen.

Aus den FORUM Beitrag: Alphatronic P2 (KISS) sind nur einige Blätter von dem TA-Blattsatz Seiten 14 - nur einige Seiten - dort als Fotos verfügbar gewesen.

Ich habe die Fotos als PDF gewandelt (zuvor leicht rotiert, kaschiert ...) erstellt.

Hier der Link:

Teilschaltplan TA 5 Volt primäres getaktetes Netzteil:

(von Neutron beigesteuert mit Dank )

Möglicherweise könnten einige Alphatronic P2 Besitzer falls dabei Netzprobleme bestehen - sich diese PDF mal studieren.

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Thank you for your findings. My father said (a long time ago) he would repair the PSU but unfortunately had to halt. Maybe with this he may find the failure.

Regards,

Jaume

I found a Betamax tape.

If really contains what the sticker says, it should be a MSX Basic videotutorial. Case and a second tape are missing; cannot test it because I don't own a beta player. However I guess this is better than nothing.

Zitat von Tammy-Aachen

Hier die Bilder!

Alleine das Spiel ist sensationell!

Tammy

What were you expecting? The Akumajou Dorakyura/Vampire Killer/Dorakyura Densetsu/Castlevania series was once the pinnacle of Konami's quality, both in graphics and sound.

The X68k is a wonderful system. I would like to acquire one in the future. It is said that it sweeps the floor with the Amiga... however I cannot make the comparison by myself, as the only 16-bit computers at home are (excluding PCs) 2 A500 and a STe.

Congratulations for your acquisition.

Sad.

In my opinion modern society owes him a lot yet most people never heard of him (the fate of most engineers and inventors).

Thank you, Mr. Peddle.

It is a subjective matter.

In my case, my line for the PC is drawn at Pentium II (cpu <= Pentium II ? retro : just obsolete).

However, it's up to you where you decide to draw the red line. I must admit that I haven't seen any computer from 20 years ago like this one you show. Any Pentium III I've seen came in a bulky metal cream-colored case. Sadly most PCs from then on seem all the same to me; if any unit is found its fate is just being scrapped for its PSU or expansion cards.

I'd like to see in which side of the border you place it. Just curious.

Hello,

I will have a break of about two weeks. Since early November, everything came much faster...

The card seems simple and straightforward. However I see a couple of problems here:

* The disk is a Winchester. There was one at my university in Andorra. It was wider than a LP... I often joked about it being Enterprise's (from Star Trek) saucer section.

* To use this modding the backplane is required. Not everybody may be willing to modify it. For instance, my collection is (mostly) shared and I have some restrictions. Maybe the Italian could be modded but the Spanish is literally "hands off".

My two cents here may be adding extra logic to interface a CF as an inernal storage media. It's just an opinion, I haven't checked how difficult may be adapting SASI to this usage.

Thank you for posting this. I have lots of old computers at home but P2 and PETs are my favourite by far, especially the former.

Zitat von 1ST1

Angeblich gab es bereits ein Angebot "im Millionenbereich" (ohne Währung zu nennen, im Falle von Zimbabwe-Dollar wär das nix), jedenfalls soll dieses einzig bekannte Exemplar der Nintendo Playstation nächsten Februar versteigert werden: https://www.golem.de/news/retr…-geplant-1912-145618.html

It will end with an insanely high price. There are more fans of retro consoles than retro computers and the failure of this system to enter into production changed the whole videogame industry forever: it sank Sega and scuttled what was left of Atari and left only two of the three major players on nowaday's market.

By still existing, it is a remainder of what could have happened. Does anybody imagine a SNES with CD-ROM?

Zitat von helwie44

Zitat von jlopez

If someone has an idea about how to proceed in this case without using 35-40 years old memories, I'd like to hear about it.

As you can see - unfortunately nobody has reported in the hardware area to the problem / solutions.

I would like to have a "graphic SUPER CARD" for the MC80 BUS. I would develop the software as driver and a program package such as "PLOT10" according to the hardware and make it available to everyone.

Is that for next year?

I should still have the circuit diagram from the MC-80 interface card for connecting a hard disk disc station. That was 2 x 5 MB SyQuest Q-PAK. At that time ( 1980 ?) , the developers worked in the field of communications engineering at the RUB (Ruhr University Bochum) for KISS and alphaTronic Px.

If I find the schematic - I insert the documents here.

Helwie44

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I've been (and still currently) busy with some university work. There are still five deadlines to meet between tomorrow and January 8th.

Seeing no better option, 4164 are the way to go. Past Dec. 23rd (deadline #2) I'll work on it.

Regards

About the memory, I've been considering how to proceed with option #2. However it's too complex to develop. The GDP has simply not aged well, as it was made only with the 41xx family in mind. Using modern memories in the design is too complex and expensive to be considered viable. Still, there are two options.

Third approach: following closely the datasheet

Using 4116. I've been able to find sources of them, especially in PRC. Requires three different power lines.

Fourth approach: following closely the example

Using 4164. At this point, the cheapest of the viable options. Requires a single supply line.

If someone has an idea about how to proceed in this case without using 35-40 years old memories, I'd like to hear about it.

About MC80 bus interfacing and decode logic, 4 ICs, the switch and the resistors/resistor pack are required. This section could be built for around 3,63€ (estimate).

When dealing with multiplexed memory addresses, latches are required to build the real "lineal" address. To recreate the 14-bit address two 8-bit latches are required, one would be updated by RAS and another one by CAS (these signals may require to be inverted). And that's the easy part.

Then I realized the GDP outputs only a single bit and, even if the output of the memory is a byte it can set (or reset) a single bit of it. That's the real problem. Using long memories of 1-bit width was the original approach. If replaced by SRAM, extra work should be done.

First approach: 32K x 8

It would be cheap and fit the address space. Without a complicated logic it would rewrite all bits of a cell every time it writes or erases a pixel, corrupting the result. Even if made to work, it wouldn't be time-compliant.

Not viable.

Second approach: 16K x 8, Dual Port SRAM

The memory ic may cost 5-6 times (at least) what a 32Kx8 or a 4116 would cost but still be cheaper than the 8x4116 assembly. It would neither require the three voltages. This solution would come configuring port A as read-only and B as a write-only, sending the output through a demultiplexer and the output of the latter to feed the SRAM input. I know, it seems confusing, a drawing should be easier to understand.

Both address busses in the SRAM should be wired exactly the same so input port address corresponds to output port address. The demux is not a 74157 as it has both enable inputs tied together. So a different approach was taken.

All 8 inputs of the decoder should be connected to two controlled buffers: one inverted and one non-inverted. This way every selected bit would be introduced in the data bus while the rest would simply flow through this section.

Note that those are not schematics, just concepts, some thoughts. Those may be improved or corrected over time or, if a better solution is found, replaced. This is also made to consider both complexity and cost and if cost is deemed too high, the project may not proceed.

Regards

Zitat von gpospi

Yes ok, this approach makes sense if we don't aim for full compatibility with the CRT 4A graphics board (as we anyway don't have the original software). Of course a new board using the same controller as the CRT 4A would be very close to the original board, probably just the MC80 interface (address mapping) would be different.

Going a bit further the simplest solution would be to hook up a Raspberry with HDMI/BAS video output to the system (MC80 bus or even serial port) and define a graphics control language (to be sent from the P2 to the Raspberry, running a "display interpreter"). The "display interpreter" could basically do whatever we want, like emulating the EF9366 commands or run e.g. a "LOGO" interpreter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turtle_graphics). A quick search led me to existing LOGO implementations for the Raspberry (http://raspberry-python.blogsp…logo-turtle-graphics.html, https://www.raspberrypi.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1290) and there are several examples available (e.g. <script src="https://gist.github.com/ramalho/ca3a355b3df471e29282.js"></script>). Piping serial input to the Xterm console on the Raspberry would not require any programming.

Actually a similar approach (having a dedicated "video terminal device") is being used in the Philips P2000C: The main unit is a Z80-powered CP/M system which has an internal serial interface to a terminal board (based on a second Z80). The terminal can display graphics, output is controlled via Escape-Commands (similar to matrix printers' ESC/P language).

Wait...

In this case, it does seem (by ic count) they added nothong and they relied just on the GDP. A different approach doesn't necessarily mean incompatibility. Do you remember my first memory board? It was to the original board what day is to night; yet, it was the same thing to the computer. The only compatibility issues here may be introduced in the MC-80 interface but, being switch-configurable that is difficult to happen. Sometime ago, I read about unused ports (we need 11) and there's only one free 16-port range on the whole alphatronic series. As I don't recall the source mentioning CRT4, it could be plausible they used that same range. Then, the only incompatible thing would be software, but with the source at hand it can be fixed anytime if new information apears.

This night I thought about a solution to the DRAM issue. Not an easy fix, but I think I found a solution. I don't have time now as I must leave but today I'll share it. It's not as cheap as I expected but if well-sourced it could still beat the 4116s in terms of cost. My doubts are if that is a valid solution, as I use components I have never used and don't know how would they behave exactly.

Regards

A replica would be harder to made, more expensive and with a higher risk of failure. As more the vintage (specific) parts are used, higher is the risk.

Zitat von gpospi

This PDF I already know (in fact I just copied a scaled down version of it into my original post). Building the board should be feasible if we would have:

• Picture of the wiring on both sides
• List of components or at least a colour picture (to identify values of resistors).

Without such info I doubt that it makes sense to start a project. At least my knowledge and time are for sure not enough to re-design a graphics controller just by looking at a black+white photo...

I think there was also a graphics board for the PC8, maybe this can still be found somewhere. However I also had no luck with this so far.

Hello gpospi!

I think we need neither, as a 2019 design would use only the GPD as a vintage part. Everything else is secondary, depends on technology changes. Having no slot C implies no hidden requirements and by having dip switch it means it could be mapped wherever the user wants to. As it seems the GDP is the workhorse of this board and the other semiconductors are rather passive, the remaining things to do would be:

• Interface the GDP with the MC-80 bus
• Interface the GDP with its private RAM

The example I found could be used as a basis for the rest of the circuit. It doesn't seem that TA did much more than that. The resistors near the switch expect them to be 4k7-10k, the top ones may be the ones of the oscillator.

Regards

Zitat von helwie44

hello jaume,

I mean it is set via a 4-bit switch dip (upper half-byte) the basisport address. It was as I see, was not the C-series of the mc 80 bus used.

the connection side of the graphics card is not shown on the photo.

Sounds good. That leaves less requirements to consider.

I have some work to do... and a deadline in Tuesday, but I may give it a try during the weekend.

Regards

Zitat von helwie44

Thanks jlopez , gpospi for the infos and the Link:

Zitat von jlopez

I found an application example but with 4164.

Thank you for posting it, always interesting to learn more about this system.

I found the manufacturer for the P2 graphics controller card. From about 1982.

In the info-PDF (German) is something more to the graphics card and the manufacturer.

Is actually something easy (or even better) times for a P2 / P3 replicate. Of course, with better components to develop!

If we feel like doing this, a software package in assembler with subroutines after the PLOT 10 system would be a nice task for me!

But the hardware would have to knit someone - or?

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So it was not a third-party but TA...

Yes, it has a low ic count. And anything that brings fresh air here is welcome.

Assuming they aren't counterfeits (most come from PRC), EF 9366 seem to be available and inexpensive. Not considering 4116, but as my first boards some SRAM. If going the monochrome way it coud be sourced for about 11€, the colour way about 17€ (I'm not counting board or other ICs). Just some numbers. What ports did it use? Decoding a port is easy using a couple of 74138, but the wiring is important to be known. Does it uses slot C?

Regards

helwie44 †

You mentioned some graphic extension card sometime ago, that used part of the unused memory range in the first 16K. While being third-party, I bet this one was mapped using unused ports (I think 8 ports in both 5xh and 7xh ranges were available).

gpospi

After taking a look to the datasheet, it seems to have a resolution of 512x256, noninterlaced.

Bottom ic row seems decode logic (again, without docs is difficult to know how it's wired) and bus control signals translation (it was designed with 65xx/68xx CPUs in mind, without separate read and write signals), second-to top is RAM 4116 (x8) for a total of 16K. This memory is private and not accessible to the 8085. Top row may be glue logic, the GDP seems to multiplex memory address.

I found an application example but with 4164.

Thank you for posting it, always interesting to learn more about this system.

Zitat von Cartouce

https://administrator.de/wisse…usf%C3%A4llen-519040.html

Zweiter Post dazu :

"Das ist ein Fehler in den Smart-Werten. Sobald der Wert für "Power-On-Count" einen Wert von 2^15 erreicht, gibt es einen Buffer-Overflow der die Firmware zerstört."

Wenn es so ist, klingt das aber tatsächlich nach nem Fehler ... Es macht bei Serverhardware auch irgendwie keinen Sinn, bewusst Zähler einzubauen, die das Teil nach Ablauf der Zeit zerstören ... Wir haben Wartungs/Serviceverträge für die Serverhardware - was ausfällt, muss auf Kosten des Herstellers ersetzt werden - und zwar für die gesamte Nutzungsdauer. Ein Ausfall einer Komponente kosten nur den Hersteller Geld ... Ganz davon abgesehen, das er sich damit seinen Ruf ruiniert ...

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So, this seems not to be a case of programmed obsolescence? It then reminds me of Age of Empires (DS), it had a similar error that sometimes resulted in the destruction of the cartridge. But losing one of them is far more serious than breaking a game.

Zitat von Cartouce

Zitat von jlopez

The sole existence of such a counter is a shame for HP.

"HPE wurde nach eigenen Angaben vom Hersteller der SSDs über den Fehler informiert ... "

It seems that the SSD were not build by HP ...

Maybe, but that's still a shameful practice. Due to technological limitations SSDs already have a limited lifespan, cutting it artificially is just pure evil. Data cannot be salvaged from dead SSDs (while possible from HDDs)... losing one is literally a catastrophic data loss.

The sole existence of such a counter is a shame for HP. How much time they do count is irrelevant, what really matters is that they make it fail on purpose. Their "only" error here is that someone set it with a lower value than usual and the whole scheme became exposed. Three years... about one year after warranty expires (in the EU, two in non-members). What will be next? One day after warranty expires? Those disrespectful industry tactics are also filling our planet with waste.

I hope for some change in the industry standards but with the US and PRC... I don't know.

One thing that I like of old computers is that they are (mostly) serviceable and some of them are running despite being 40-45 years old.

Zitat von Jungsi

Konsolen-Neuzugänge und Atari Merchandise

Nice acquisitions! That GX... rare to find it boxed nowadays.

If that's your first NEC TG-16, I recommend you to get an adapter to play PC-E HuCards (a large portion of titles for this system never left Japan). It is, however, nearly mandatory to acquire a CD-ROM²... Its best games are in that format. Do you have a NTSC TV or you'll mod it to output RGB?

Regards

Greetings!

About two weeks ago I went to "Saló del Manga" in Barcelona and made some good findings. After my return I was very busy and that's why I didn't share this with you before...

I got, as expected, Japanese content as books and movies. I got more, but only what I consider the most interesting of them are here:

The golden age of the flying boat, by Miyazaki Hayao

Movie theatre booklet of "Hotaru no haka", unopened since 1988

Rupan sansei: Kariosutoro no shiro.

This last one is very important. If, when young you played "Cliff Hanger", you actually watched fragments of this movie. It contains the prototype characters of some of Miyazaki's movies (it was his debut as director) such as Nausicaä, Fío, Muska, the Men in Black, Curtiss and apparently was used by the development teams of Konami during development of the original (pre Lords of Shadow) Castlevania/Akumajou dorakyura series.

In the purely retro side, I found some interesting items from the three regions...

Super Game Boy, the only European piece that I was able to acquire.

This one was a surprise... It came apparently from the USA.

Everything else came from Japan.

Dorakyura Densetsu II

Ghost in the Shell

Ni no kuni

This last one is very special because animation was done by Studio Ghibli ("Sen to Chihiro no kamikakushi", "Hotaru no haka", "Kurenai no buta", etc.). The composer is Joe Hisaishi, who has worked with Miyazaki since 1984. Being an special edition the box also contained a book which is the game's guide.

Zitat von overCLK

Zitat von jlopez

Be careful when assembling it. R3's value needs to be higher, otherwise D3 will be blown.

With the 390 Ohm value the current through a Green diode would be a bit over 20 mA and you are right that it would be slightly high for a LED. I think I calculated on 20mA and then used the nearest resistor I got (unfortunately I should have used the nearest but higuer than the teorethical value).

The calculated value for 20mA is 425 Ohm, so please use the nearest higuer resistor you have.

jlopez: Thanks for the heads-up.

Also take into account that the values on the board are only valid for the colors I used in my setup:

D1. Yellow

D2. Red

D3. Green

In case you want to use other colors, you should recalculate the resistor values.

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Don't apologize. It's my fault, too.

Be careful when assembling it. R3's value needs to be higher, otherwise D3 will be blown.

Hello!

A large part of the study of the backplane has been done. I have connections between cards using slot C, connection between the foresaid slot and I/O pins, power supply and I/O connector pinouts (including those not soldered). Most of this work is still in paper and pencil, but the raw data involving connections within the cards (and most I/O) using slot C are as stated in the following document. I will update it as soon as possible. However, if someone does not like my naming scheme and has one better or detects an error, please report and corrections will be made at once.

TA-P3 Backplane Reference Document WIP-20191026.pdf

Thank you very much!

Hello

I started documenting the P3 Backplane. The PS section and slots 1-5 are done. I'll try to have slots 6 to 9, jumpers and connectors ready for tomorrow.

The links between both ram boards and keyboard/display unit have been identified. If someone could post pictures of other P3 than mine to check the jumpers I'd be very pleased. Mine seem to have been modified and that would affect docs for sure.

Thank you and regards