Exidy Sorcerer RomPac(k)

    Hallo Axel,

    Welches Rom Pac willst du?

    Colin



    Hallo Axel,

    which Rom Pac do you want ?

    Colin

    Hallo Colin,

    i don`t have an Rom Pac at all.

    I think the Rom Pac with Basic would be nice.

    Since I couldn`t find an offer on the internet, i think they are very rare.

    That`s why I asked for a circuit board from a reproduction.

    What do you have?

    Axel


    (My Sorcerer is the Model 1 (black))

    Guten Morgen Axel,


    I have two Sorcerers Model 2 .. both in boring beige , I have never seen a black version.


    Other kit includes the S100 expansion unit, and a number of Rom pacs. S100 64k static ram board and an S100 twin floppy drive board that was never completed. ( yet) Basic Pac x 2, Eprom Pac x 2 and I still have some unsold 'Ultimate Pacs' remaining from the 1980's ... and early venture into equipment sales. It is a Non volatile ( Lithium battery backed 8k Ram Pac . It has two switches 'Rom/Ram' mode and '8k / 6K ram + 2k Rom' mode . This allows 54k Ram with a 2k Rom boot for Disk drive boot.


    You can load any Rom Pac , from tape, into the Pac, select ROM mode, press RESET and the 'RomPac' boots .... but the best feature is that a favourite game can be loaded into it which will start instantly ... no more waiting for the cassette. :)


    If you are interested I will look for the 'dot matrix' printed manual ?


    I was so surprised to see two Basic Pacs on ebay this year sell for an unbelievable £90 and £50. It prompted me to look through my old computer kit. I will try to sell some of it on Ebay or Tindie soon as I do not want it to become landfill one day. :(


    I joined this forum because a search of 'Exidy anything' found you amongst so many other enthusiastic people still enjoying the equipment that made the path for all the amazing stuff we all take for granted in modern times. I am sure that buying my Sorcerer, and the 1000's of hours of learning with it, allowed me to become PLC (SPS) software engineer I am today.


    I read this recently ... where did I go wrong :/

    ------------------------------------------------------------

    -------- ( https://writerita.blogspot.com/ )

    Larry Page and Sergey Brin revolutionized the way we search on the Internet. Their Google search engine is an expansive directory, and one of the most profitable businesses on the Internet. Here are some interesting facts about Larry Page.

    Larry’s first computer was an Exidy Sorcerer—in 1978! The Sorcerer boasted 2 MHz processor speed and about 8K in RAM. That is about as fast as a third-grader’s calculator nowadays!

    -----------------------------------------------------------


    You can see some of my kit in the attached photo ..... and yes that is the original Sorcerer box .... in the shape of a large briefcase !


    My apologies for such a long post but I have not talked about these machines for such a long time.... especially to someone who owns one ....


    MfG,


    Colin

    Hello Colin

    Thank you for all the information about this computer system.

    My only abundant resource is a website from down under.

    I have my Sorcerer recently bought in the US following the Rom Pac deals.

    It cost me almost EUR 1000 (EUR 650 for the device and EUR 350 for Pitney Bowes and import tax)

    That with the color is probably a misunderstanding.

    The sorcerers I've seen have always been two-tone.

    Beige and black one and beige and blue / gray the other.

    In the pictures, i saw, the beige-black ones were always the older model 1.

    An Ultimate Pac would be an ideal Thing.

    And if I had to pay £ 90 for that, I'd be fine.

    What bothers me is, when I have to pay an additional 50-60 pounds for shipping and taxes to third parties.

    I think most of the members in this forum couldn`t agree more.

    So I think eBay or Tindie make it unnecessary expensive.

    There is a better way.

    I got my first computer very late. A Amstrad CPC 464.

    It had/has a very comfortable basic.

    I find the old computers so interesting because you can understand how they work.

    Apple, SWTPC, Heathkit H8 / H11, Trs-80, PET, Ohio Scientific, Acorn, ...


    Axel

    Hallo Axel,


    I did not know it was so expensive to buy a large item from the USA - thank you for the warning.

    I have only looked at Tindie .... I have never purchased anything ... just window shopping :)


    I did buy a Fuji digital camera, from Ebay.com. It was long time ago and people said " digital camera" in those days,. It was 6.6 megapixel, for $650 .. I repeatedly asked the seller if I would be liable for taxes and he assured me that I would not be charged. I was charged £82 at my front door :( . The same camera now is £45 on Ebay... it is just crazy how some kit devalues so quickly.


    The Sorcerer Basic Pac is functional but possibly the your Amstrad Basic maybe more advanced. There was an add on utility which I bought that increased it's 'power' .... extra functions like RENUMBER, very handy. Even so, when you think that the Word Processor Pac is less than 16K and boots in two seconds, a complete system, this is still so amazing !


    Your comment that you can understand how they old computers work is true of many things. Old cars, unlike newer ones, can be repaired by their drivers and their friends. However phones, are unrepairable today if they break and become worthless if they do not fail because the manufacturer ceases to provide security updates. The hardware still works ... how is this even legal to cause premature obsolescence. It is the same as scrapping a car because the tyres are worn !


    I also have an Alphatronic machine... (Triumph-Adler) that worked until I last switched it on .... a mild capacitor explosion has put it out of action... for the moment. Z80 4mhz, 64k ram, twin 5.25 drives and colour .... I though it was great, for 3 weeks, until I saw the Atari 1040st ... just had to have one.


    I may well need to find the tape for the manual ... maybe I will 'fire up' my first printer, NEC 8023BC . Why i can remember part numbers but never find my keys just baffles me.


    I will stop rambling now ...


    Gute Nacht,


    Colin

    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/104710/forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/104710/Hallo Axel,


    Finally, from my loft I found the project file from 1983 ... I was 22forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/104710/forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/104710/forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/104710/forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/104710/ years old then so forgive the over confidence in the attached files .... :)

    Each page is 9mb so this should work ....

    MfG,

    Colin

    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/104730/forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/104730/



    Opps, all was well until the last upload. I can no longer edit the above message .....hmmm ... I will try again


    Hallo Axel,


    Finally, from my loft, I found the project file from 1983 ... I was 22 years old then so forgive the over confidence in the attached files .... :)

    Each page is 9mb so this should work ....


    MfG,

    Colin



    search ROM PAC , RAM PAC

    Hello Colin.

    the Ultimate Pac was already very innovative and comfortable.

    With the knowledge of today about that Speed of technical

    Development in the hardware I believe your project came 1 to 2Years too late.

    In 1984 there was also a huge slump in homecomputer market and sales.

    In my observation, the computers had a longer lifespan that could be upgraded.

    For example the Apple 2 and BBC B. There were apparently innumerable projects for them.

    Your project is a bit like an early Gotek / Lotharek drive.

    If you want to sell a module, let me know.

    Axel

    Hallo Axel,


    Yes i remember the BBC B, it was very popular but I was dedicated to the Sorcerer .... :)

    I remember the same guys two years earlier making jokes about why I even needed a computer .... then they all had to have one !!


    What programs do you have for you machine ? What programs would you like ?

    I have manuals both books and PDF's but most of them are here ... just download everything.... http://www.trailingedge.com/exidy/


    I checked my tapes today and I found Sargon II, a Chess program ... it was the competition winner at that time ... some how I have both the English and German versions ! It does not need the Basic Rom Pac to run. It is a large program, I am sure it only runs in a 32k+ Ram. If you would like to have it - tell me - I should be able to save it as an audio file which you could the 'play' into your Sorcerer. I have used some audio files before but only at the slower 300 baud speed, they do not work at 1200 baud for some reason. Only works on my laptop too, it would not work from my phone. :(


    I am still looking for the Ultimate Pac parts ....I got distracted today ... rediscovering too much. I have other things I should be doing in the daytime.


    Anyway .... a peek at Chess ... :)


    MfG,


    Colin

    Hello Colin!

    I have the software, manuals, and other information about my computers on the company's server.

    The data is permanently mirrored here. So I could't see what i have gathered about the Sorcerer from the Internet

    until this morning.

    It's more than 4GB of Data. Incredible!

    There are definitely some things that are double.

    Datas from Trailingedge is also included.

    Most of it comes from "Tezza's" side. (Terry Stewart)

    http://www.classic-computers.org.nz

    Here is a printed view of the software-page:

    Webseite.pdf

    There are 3.5 GB of data through the WAV files.

    I think I downloaded all of this from this site.

    But I haven't tried anything yet.

    I also don't know which of them can run on my Sorcerer.

    Axel

    Hallo Axel,


    Yes he has an excellent site. I only saw it a short time ago.

    He mentions about volume level issues with these WAV files ... this confirms what I found yesterday.

    He also mentions which programs need the BASIC Pac installed, very helpful.

    I would load them at 300 baud from a laptop and then Save to Tape at 1200 baud. I have a 'portable' Grundig cassette recorder, since my early Sorcerer days, which still works perfectly with motor control 8-) connected by the 25 pin serial port, with an override switch box made from a Parker Pen gift box ... to allow REW and FF :)


    Would you like me to try to make the a WAV of the Chess program ...German version .... I see you have the English version listed there ?


    Your Sorcerer will run all of the programs except for those that need the BASIC Pac. I believe there were only three versions of memory size 16K, 32K and 48K.


    I am curious to know what improvements are gained from the Monitor Roms 1.3 upgrade on the Trailing Edge site.


    Ok I have got to get busy ....


    MfG,


    Colin

    Hallo Axel,


    Today I found the some Exidy manuals and Z80 books.

    I will contact Tezza in New Zealand and see if he wishes me to scan them for his website.

    Nearly all original, so I should be able to get some good scans and a little glory !!


    Also, in a special tin box, that I had actually labeled, .... 'Ultimate Pad parts'. Circuit boards still wrapped, fibre glass with a gold plated edge connector ....switches and lithium batteries. I have few more small parts to find, the 24 pin sockets came yesterday - I had every size but 24 .

    So ... would you like me to build an Ultimate Pac for you ? ( or two :) )


    BTW Page 6 explains that a single must be added to be able to use all five modes of operation ... can you do this modification or do you know someone who can it for you ? I just cut the 'write' wire in my machine .... to prove that the Pac can be loaded successfully - without it connected and it can. ( I could not remember the procedure myself until I tested it.)


    There at least two versions of Sorcerer Basic Ver1.0 and Ver 1.1 - do you have one of these files ? If I can find Ver1.1 I will load it or I will load Ver1.0 .


    You said you have a Sorcerer Mk 1. I did not know that the main circuit board was so different to the MK2. I have the MK1 technical manual but it does not show the pcb layout. It would be the same pin on a ram chip but at a different location. I did see some photos comparing the pcb layouts, perhaps I can see where it should be placed. It just needs a meter on the write pin of the Ram to be traced to a suitable solder pad.


    MfG,


    Colin

    Hi Colin,

    I owe you a few more answers.

    I have a couple of tape recorders that are accessories to some computers.

    But since there are always problems with the hardware:

    Drive belts, cassettes, .....

    I have bought a digital voice recorder.

    This can save several files as *.wav or MP3 on an SD card.

    The device can be connected directly to a computer using the appropriate adapter.

    Or I use one Dummy cassette. This also works with cassette recorders that have a defective drive belt.

    The Internet, and especially our community of interests, thrives on people like you sharing your knowledge and documentation.

    So I think it's great when you do the work and upload things.


    Also, my opinion on your Ultimate Rome Pac has not changed.

    I want at least 1 piece or more.

    The best thing to do is to send me a PM.


    Soldering a couple of cables into a computer is no problem for me after 35 years. Reading and creating circuit diagrams also does not. This is one of the ways I earn my money.

    What I call Rome Images

    found is here:

    rom-packs.zip

    It is known that there is a difference between the first and second versions.

    But the only thing I know about it is that the 2nd model has more RAM on board and that the layout has fundamentally changed.

    I am sure that you are so far ahead of me with the Sorcerer that I can no longer see you.

    A few more pictures from my device.


    The keyboard still has a few problems.

    I still have to convert the power supply to 220V.

    The 60Hz must also become 50Hz.

    How to do that is in the manual.


    greeting

    Axel

    Hallo Axel,


    Nice laboratory ... so tidy, so many pieces of test equipment ... my rooms are too untidy for me to show you !! :oops:

    Digital tape ... great idea and the dummy cassette too. :thumbup:


    Please accept my apologies for asking if you can add a wire and locate the write pin on the RAM:D ... but I wanted to be sure you could do it.


    Power and frequency modifications --- What are you waiting for ... or do you power your machine with 240/110 vac transformer ?

    The photo of the transformer --- has it overheated or what is that brown substance on the top of it ?

    Page 27 of the technical manual has the modifications ... do you have it ?

    Your keyboard --- it has electrical or mechanical problems ?

    Your machine looks good. Sometimes they can be very badly discoloured:thumbup:


    I cannot see how to start a PM ?(... you first ...:)

    MfG,


    Colin

    Hello Colin!


    Of course i will do the modifications to power up the machine on our local outlets 230V/50Hz.

    I could use a transformer but the 50/60Hz problem would remain without the modification and i think the machine is still in an

    original shape with this done.

    I will need some more time to figure out where the problem with the keyboard is and even some more time to tidy up the rest of

    my "laboratory". The photo does not show the mess.

    Axel

    Hello Colin

    Made the modification:

    The transformer now runs on 230V.

    The monitor output is now 50 Hz.

    That left the problem with the keyboard.

    It looked like this:

    Some buttons didn't work at all. For one part, the wrong character appeared on the screen. The rest of the character changed

    For example, when you pressed the "6" key, a 6 or a 1 appeared.

    With the Logic-Probe I noticed that not all keyboard columns are addressed. A 74154 (4-line to 16-line decoders / demultiplexers) is responsible for this. One of the 4-line inputs was permanently high.

    The 4 signals come from a 74LS374 (OCTAL D-TYPE FLIP FLOP WITH 3 STATE OUTPUT).

    What confused me was that the corresponding input (= data bus) was permanently high level.

    Although the startup message appeared correctly on the screen!

    Long story short.

    The 374 was defective. The error only occurred when it was used for the first time.

    I.e. after the memory test and the switch-on message as which the keyboard was queried.

    So far it works again.

    What I also saw is that the previous owner modified the cassette recorder connection:

    At least two Conductor tracks were cut and 4 cables (white) were added.

    I don't yet know what that will do.

    greeting

    Axel

    Hallo Axel,


    I would be disappointed to have paid so much money and have these issues, but i guess we must accept these machines are 'veterans' that still work and are repairable. I see the LS374 at position 2D, maybe the keyboard was plugged in the wrong way... anyway good job for fixing it .... so your machine runs now ? Have you been able to load a machine code game ?


    There was a modification for increased baud rate ... on the RS232 port - perhaps this is to do with it. I will see if I can find the information.

    Can you show me a photo or are you referring to your photo above (6.jpg with white cables) ?


    MfG,


    Colin

    I just took one more photos:






    Another small black cable on the bottom.

    Connector strip for the additional board


    Conductor interruption directly to IC "1C"

    (74LS374)

    Can only be seen under a magnifying glass.

    So I can't say yet whether there is more.



    MfG.

    Axel

    Hallo Axel,


    These white cables are just passing under ICs with no connections ... a lot of work ... very strange ?


    I would remove all of them, join the cut PCB tracks and get your machine to it's original standard.


    MfG,


    Colin

    Zitat von PLC_GUY

    Would you like me to try to make the a WAV of the Chess program ...German version .... I see you have the English version listed there ?

    Hello Colin,

    I would like a copy of that software if possible as it does not appear to have been preserved elsewhere.

    I also wonder if you attended any user group meetings back in the day.

    Thanks,

    Michael

    Hello Exidyboy,


    I will try. Which format, cassette or wav file ?


    What can you swap ...my piano player (Howard Arrington ) 'add on' tape failed, or rather I failed because I should have backed it up sooner. The are music files too. I have 3 files ...do you have any more ?


    Regards,

    Colin

    I've actually made some reproduction ROM PAC boards and the design is up on github here: https://github.com/abzman/Exid…ain/Sorcerer%20Rom%20Pack


    I also have some other stuff about the sorcerer partially finished including the arrington sound card (I upgraded mine to 8-bit) and the arrington 2716 programmer (I didn't build one, but I think I reverse engineered it correctly). I'd be interested in the Ultimate PAC especially if it's cool that I document the board in the same way I did the others so it can be reproduced. I really like the idea and while I could probably work out how to do it from the description it would be cool to reproduce the exact layout.


    I'm happy to make the ROM PACs for anyone, and they'll be up on PCBWay at some point for one-click ordering so I don't have to field all the requests myself. I should have a blog entry detailing my experience making the ROM PAC board up soon, but in writing that I remembered the ultimate pac and wanted to mention it there as a third party pac from back in the day.

    Well, I did it. I finally wrote this up. It was a bit of a journey going down all those tangents. I don't have any spares right now and I'm not making more until I get the darn thing working as a RAM PAC. I think that's just a problem with my sorcerer 1 and its many mods. I tried it on a friend's sorcerer 2, but it may not have had the jumper set for writing to the cart slot.


    Exidy Sorcerer ROM PAC replica
    I’ve talked about the aftermarket expansion modules I reverse engineered for the Sorcerer, but what about something first party? I was going to wait because I…
    abzman2k.wordpress.com

    Hello Colin,

    Sorry for the delay. I had set the forum to notify me of any new posts in this thread but it does not seem to work.


    Ideally I would like a high-quality .wav file of both sides of the German Sargon cassette so I can submit it to the MAME emulator project with appropriate credit to you of course if desired. It is important to preserve localised versions of software to help understand the international context of early microcomputing.


    As it happens I do have I believe all the music files that Howard made available at extra cost for the Four Voice Music System. I actually encountered the music files (.MUS) before I ever managed to track down the hardware. I stumbled across them as pirate copies on disks I was imaging as part of an initiative to preserve a different part of Sorcerer history. This enabled me to track down an actual piece of hardware and take the first photographs that I am aware of.


    I recreated the board with permission from the original designer using mostly vintage 1% tolerance resistors and other hardware to keep it sympathetic to the period. I made one change from the original though and that was to add a footprint for a slide switch that can be installed as an option if you don't mind it being less authentic to the original. This is a convenience for customers that lets you route the signal from the unconnected least significant bit of the parallel port to the most significant bit of the DAC so that sound from some games can be played without fiddling around behind the machine to plug in a different setup.


    If your 3 songs for the system are on an original cassette I would be very interested in a photo of that and potentially also .wav files so they can be compared with files in .MUS format.


    I also wonder if you have version 1 or version 2 of the Music Composer software? I believe I only have the first version but without a definitive copy of the later version with known providence that can be compared side-by-side I can't tell. Attached is a photo of a version II cassette from an ended ebay auction in the UK. I missed the auction and to the best of my knowledge no recordings have surfaced.


    Cheers,

    Michael


    Hello Michael,

    I had a number of notifications, oddly all at once ::heilig::.


    The German chess file is only a copy.


    My original Howard Arrington Music Player photo attached.



    I also had Howard's music DAC board, great fun.


    I believe there were a few RAM Pac models made by different people, to get extra memory for machines running CP/M.


    With regards to the Ultimate Pac, I still sell them. Strangely, you are the second person offering to 'help me' or reverse engineer my own product in the last few months. 🤔


    I still have 16 boards remaining if you or any other member reading this conversation are interested.


    Micheal, you are doing excellent work in 'Exidy preservation' ... but for many people here these computers never went away. For many of us on this site, and others, everything now is very well preserved.


    The 'dark years', 'before the internet' were lonely times owning vintage computers, but now there are some fantastic sites worldwide. I truly hope everything is already safely stored for the future,....

    ....but there is always room for another guy's efforts.👍


    Regards,


    Colin