SuperSoft HRx - Versuch eines Neubaus

    News from the HR40B front!
    After doing some work on my 4032 (it was reworked to 80 columns, so I had to reverse that first), I retested the ROMs posted and cross checked the connections... at least I found a wrong wire (white and black, were set to 20,21 and not to 21,22, J9).

    ANNND: It works at least partially!

    The commands work fine, SYS59650,5 will start the HR40b and SYS59650,C will clear the screen again. I can even make lines!
    The bad thing: the curious vertical lines, we saw already at CBM_Ba 3032 still remain.
    Puh, due to it works at least as intended, I assume all parts are working... due to we have the same issue at 2 machines: the problem either is on the HR40b (has anybody an idea where to start?) or the same issue on the Univ board (but I dont think so).

    Any ideas are welcome! :weinen:

    That looks like a bad contact with the character rom socket … silly question, have you tried pushing gently around the character rom area and does the screen change ? I have seen that when the character rom is not correctly seated or there is a broken pin.


    Are the vertical lines there on boot up of the PET?


    Can you post a picture of the motherboard also ? It could be the 74ls166 on the main board but if the board works without the supersoft installed probably not that.


    Have you checked the 74ls’s are ok ?

    My issue was the LS00‘s not working. ;)


    Beitrag
    RE: SuperSoft HRx - Versuch eines Neubaus
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS?!!???!!!! 😍

    Pictures say more than words:
    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194300/

    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194299/

    IC3 old, IC2 new:
    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194297/

    IC2 old, IC3 new:
    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194298/

    Both 74LS00 from Reichelt (brand new , chiptester said OK) replaced:
    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194301/

    Conclusion:
    - all 6116 defect -> replaced, drawing possible,…
    CBM_Ba

    Richi


    Ach, jetzt weiß ich was du meinst!

    Beim Testen deiner HR40b in meinem 4032 (NICHT 3032) gabs die gleichen Linien.

    Ja, das stimmt leider.


    Ich hab meine Karte bis morgen auch fertig, dann sehen wir weiter. ;)

    Zitat von CBM_Ba

    My issue was the LS00‘s not working. ;)


    Beitrag
    RE: SuperSoft HRx - Versuch eines Neubaus
    YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSS?!!???!!!! 😍

    Pictures say more than words:
    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194300/

    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194299/

    IC3 old, IC2 new:
    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194297/

    IC2 old, IC3 new:
    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194298/

    Both 74LS00 from Reichelt (brand new , chiptester said OK) replaced:
    forum.classic-computing.de/index.php?attachment/194301/

    Conclusion:
    - all 6116 defect -> replaced, drawing possible,…
    CBM_Ba

    Dang... same here... if it is defect or not, I am unsure: I used ALS. I changed it to S and now it works... buuut still an issue.
    Characters are not really present.

    Just as an example the READY.

    If I type in ready by myself, the R at the beginning is fine, as soon as I type E, the R is starting to vanish:

    But still not as the "commodore" ready... I can type till the y:

    And if I add the Y i get the same result as the READY.:


    By wobbling the HR40b, there is no change in anything.

    Zitat von Richi
    Zitat von AndyG

    It could be the 74ls166 on the main board but if the board works without the supersoft installed probably not that.

    Without HR40b it works fine. No graphics issue, the RAM looks also fine with the PETTEST2KV4...

    Can you post picture of motherboard as it could be a universal MB not liking the character rom eprom being used …. In an earlier post I mentioned that I haven’t had issues with the version that has a metal box over the clock crystal …. Near the piezo speaker …


    Have you tried the eprom in the motherboard by itself ? the screen will be inverted but are the characters clear ?


    Have you tried a different manufacturer of eprom ?

    Sure it is the 8032080 without the metal box.

    I checked the HR40b CR in the plain board, and it has the same issues:

    If I swap back to Commodore Original, I have a clear picture... So in my understanding it just can be the EPROM, or the bin file.
    I will test now another EPROM of the same model and then another model....

    It’s the motherboard…. That version has issues with EPROMs as character roms …


    I know there have been threads on why that could be nobody has found a solution. It’s not a hr-40b issue.

    You need a later version of motherboard … like the ones ending with Assy number …. ‘89… or later . It’s a timing issue with the EPROM… why I don’t know but the universal 1 circuit is different to univ 2

    Yours was an 80 column version … the fat-40 versions I have seen were mainly ending in assy ‘89 though I have one with ‘80 and has the offset character… you can try another manufacturer of Epsom to see if it resolves the issue and get lucky but I only succeeded with MOS character roms with that board.

    I saw it and I had that feeling, damn... I know these wires... the 2 wires you can see are also in the schematic... but what they exactly do... no idea.

    8032080-7.gif (3296×2544) (zimmers.net)

    On the schematic they are linked with 8 and 9 in rectengulars.. any idea to what it refers?

    I found out that eproms like 2532 or mc68766 are too slow for a c64 charrom. So maybe its the same problem here?

    Now i use 27hc641 with 55ns - perfect!

    They have 8kB, but you can use it as 4kB 2332 rom replacement.

    2816 have sadly only 2kB and i dond know a 4kB eeprom...


    Christian

    Good morning!


    HR80 is about to be ready... only a few cables left to build. :(


    What do you want to know about the 4032 universal board? I have another one which should also have no problem with EPROMs as char ROM.


    Commodore itself did many EPROM swaps when there was a different keyboard layout necessary (QWERTZ for example).


    BR,

    Matthias

    Zitat von Richi

    I saw it and I had that feeling, damn... I know these wires... the 2 wires you can see are also in the schematic... but what they exactly do... no idea.

    8032080-7.gif (3296×2544) (zimmers.net)

    Could you have a look which additions are made to your board? At least here the 2 wires are already shown, there should be also some traces cut.



    Zitat von CBM_Ba

    I have another one which should also have no problem with EPROMs as char ROM.

    I will also check another font in the afternoon... (written to an EPROM).

    But I am not sure if it is a timing problem: the timing of the MPS2332 is also 450ns and the A version has 350ns... so not really "better" than the 2532.

    Zitat von Richi

    On the schematic they are linked with 8 and 9 in rectengulars.. any idea to what it refers?

    That's written on the first page of the schematic:

    https://zimmers.net/anonftp/pub/cbm/schematics/computers/pet/univ/8032080-1.gif


    [9]

    component side:

    solder jumper wire to ic pin 21 ub13 to pin8 of ue6

    solder jumper wire to ic pin 3 ub1 to pin 6 of uc3


    [8]

    component side:

    cut pin21 of ub13

    cut pin of ub1

    My boards have the following changes:


    UD2: Pin 10/11 cut, pads on mainboard soldered together (solder side)

    UC3: Pin 6 wire to UB1 pin 3 (and leg on UC3 soldered into mainboard, on UB1 leg NOT soldered into mainboard)

    UE6: Pin 8 wire to UB13 pin 21 (leg on UE6 soldered into mainboard, on UB13 leg NOT soldered into mainboard)


    That's all I can see.


    Did I mention I begin to HATE these supersoft cards?! ::devil:: :2teufel: :cursing: :weinen:


    HR40b:

    4032 switched on, GREEN SCREEN, BLACK BLINKING CURSOR:


    I knew the game, so swapping the three LS00 did help, startup ok.

    SYS 59650,5: YEAAAH, green dots + text (normal behaviour):


    SYS 59650,C: DOUBLE YEAHH, screen perfectly fine clear:


    SYS 59650,SL,0,0,319,199 (or any other coordinates): lines is drawn, but there are dots and small lines everywhere on the screen.

    Contact on all sockets looks perfect, no change in behaviour when I whiggle somewhere:



    Not interested in finishing HR80 at the moment, because every single card seems to have different issues...

    That's not a problem with the replica from zitruskeks ,but it's the very bad design of the card itself with all the wires and clips and plugs.


    What could cause an error like that? 6116 are ok, tried different ones.


    BR,

    Matthias

    Additional informations:


    The other 8032080 Board also works exactly like the one in my 4032.

    Drawing possible, but screen full with random dots and tiny horizontal lines.


    Swapped the three LS00, IC7 (LS02) and the four 6116.


    I don't think it is a contact problem (same behaviour for both mainboards).

    Not for the HR-40B from what I can see in my photos - this is the for the HR80 though not sure I wired that in.. need to check the photos more.


    Sorry you having so many difficulties - I have found the HR-40B boards quite robust apart from that ribbon cable attachment to the board and the yellow clip touching other pins. I changed the ribbon cable to a socket and pin arrangement.


    I have even desoldered one board to take photos of the bare board and re-installed all the iC's and it worked though the ribbon cable attachment is fiddly and prone to breakage if not careful.


    The random noise on the screen appearing when you draw seems a 74LS issue perhaps or RAM issue. I cannot recall seeing that before. Will pull my HR-40B and replica board out again and fire it up to see if we can figure it out. However, I soldered all my 74LS IC's onto the board rather than use sockets.