Größte MFM Platte? (Setup eines Image Files >RD54 für VS2000)

Hallo Allerseits!

Was waren denn die größten MFM Platten?

Gabs die Dinger jenseits von 160MB?

Grüße

Stephan

hat jemand so eine vielleicht und könnte mir die ausleihen?

Ich würde gern ein Image dieser mit einer VAX formatierten Platte erstellen um diese dann im

MFM Emulator nutzen zu können.

Zitat von jdreesen

Soweit ich weiss ist die Maxtor XT2190 die grosste. Dec verkaufte diese als DEC RD54.

Ein MFM-emulator Image habe ich, aber nur als .bin file. Sogar auf VAX formatiert...

Danke!

Diese habe ich hier auch.

Schade.

Ich hatte gehofft, mit dem MFM Emulator was größeres erstellen zu können.

Was meinst Du mit "nur als *.bin File" - für SIMH?

Zitat von e2k

Ich dachte, dass Du eine MV2000 hast? Dann kannst Du Dir eine zusammenformattieren auf dem MFM emulator ...

Ja richtig. Aber wie geht das?

Ich muß dem Emulator doch ein Image vorgeben.

Das Image habe ich vorher von einer realen Platte extrahiert mit dem MFM Emulator.

Dessen Größe/Geometrie ist ja fest, für den Rechner macht es dann keinen Unterschied, ob ich die emulierte RD54 oder die reale angehängt ist?

Oder übersehe ich mal wieder etwas?

Gruß

Stephan

c900 beim DEC Controller kann ich ziemlich frei die Parameter einstellen, wenn ich eine NON DEC Platte verwenden will. DEC Platten erkennt er und man muß gar nichts einstellen.

Ich zitiere:

Formatting non-DEC disks in the MicroVAX/VAXstation-2000(part 1)

--------------------------------------------------------

By Bob Armstrong with additions from Kees Stravers

Some of this information I figured out by reading STARLET and the

example device drivers in the VMS _Device Support_ manuals. Much of

it was contributed to me by Terry Kennedy, Lennart Boerjeson, and

others.

The standard DEC drives that are supported in the VS2000 and their

industry equivalents are:

RD54 - Maxtor XT-2190

RD53 - Micropolis 1325 or 1335

RD31 - Seagate ST-225

RD32 - Seagate ST-251-1

If you have any of these standard drives you can simply plug it into

your 2000 and the ROM formatter will automatically recognize the drive

types. I've never seen this fail, even if the drive has never seen a

DEC machine before, or even if the drive was previously formatted in

a PC.

If the VS2000 ROM formatter program does not recognize one of these

drive types, then it will enter a dialog asking you to enter the drive

parameters described below. Again, I've never seen this fail, even

with very old ROM firmware versions (v1.2 is the oldest I've seen).

If you get a "??" response rather than the dialog, you almost certainly

have a hardware problem with your drive.

In theory you can use ANY MFM drive in the VS2000 by calculating

the appropriate parameters. I've done this with several non-DEC

drives with good success now, and following is a description of what

I've learned about the parameters. If you can contribute to any

of the "I don't know" parts, I'd like to hear about it!

The formatting dialog for an unknown hard disk is as follows:

------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>> TEST 70

VSfmt_QUE_unitno (0-2) ? 0 [Enter drive number]

VSfmt_STS_Siz .......... ???? [Formatter does not recognize drive type]

VSfmt_STS_EntUIB [Formatter wants drive details]

[this example is from the VS2000 technical manual]

xbnsiz :=54 [enter the number of transfer blocks]

dbnsiz :=48 [enter the number of diagnostic blocks]

lbnsiz :=83236 [enter the number of logical blocks]

rbnsiz :=200 [enter the number of replacement blocks]

surpun :=6 [enter the number of surfaces per unit]

cylpun :=820 [enter the number of cylinders per unit]

wrtprc :=820 [enter the write precompensation cylinder]

rctsiz :=4 [enter the size of the revectoring control table (RCT)]

rctnbr :=8 [enter the number of copies of the RCT]

secitl :=1 [enter the sector interleave]

stsskw :=2 [enter the surface to surface skew]

ctcskw :=9 [enter the cylinder to cylinder skew]

mediai :=627327008 [enter the MSCP media ID]

* Note this number is not dependant on disk geometry, but is the

* magic number for VMS to report on the type of disk.

At this point, the formatter exits the query mode.

The next output to the screen is:

VSfmt_QUE_SerNbr (0-999999999) [enter the serial number for

the drive]

[or enter a unique number

for each unit]

VSfmt_QUE_RUsure (DUAx 1/0) ? [where x equals the unit number]

[enter 1 for YES, 0 for NO]

The formatter is now running, and the output should look like:

VSfmt_STS_RdMbb.............OK [manufacturer's bad block located]

VSfmt_STS_FMTing............OK [disk formatted OK]

VSfmt_STS_ChkPss............OK [check pass completed OK]

VSfmt_STS_BBRvec := x [number of bad blocks revectored]

VSfmt_RES_Succ [disk is successfully formatted]

>>>

(part 2)

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Explanation of drive specifics:

XBNSIZ - number of transfer blocks. All DEC's disks seem to use 54,

regardless of the disk capacity.

DBNSIZ - number of diagnostic blocks. DEC seems to select this so that the

DBNs and XBNs total up to 1 cylinder. Therefore:

DBNSIZ = (SURPUN*17) - XBNSIZ

LBNSIZ - total number of user data blocks, not counting DBNs and XBNs.

I believe that

LBNSIZ = CYLPUN * SURPUN * 17

the numbers I have for DEC disks are close to this, but not

exact. There must be some ambiguity about what gets counted.

RBNSIZ - replacement block count (for bad block revectoring). About 0.1%

to 1% of the disk capacity is reasonable, depending on the media

quality. DEC seems to always use 0.2%. This is frequently

rounded to an exact number of cylinders, but I'm not sure that's

necessary. WARNING - if you allocate fewer RBNs than your disk

has bad sectors, the VS2000 formatter seems to hang in the media

analysis phase!

SURPUN - surfaces (aka heads) per drive. Note that the RQDX? will ALWAYS

assume 17 sectors per track, 512 bytes per sector! The RQDX

controllers can handle a maximum of 16 heads.

CYLPUN - cylinders per drive. Total number of cylinders on the drive.

I believe, but I'm not sure, that this does NOT include the

cylinders used for DBNs, RBNs and XBNs. Note that the RQDX

family controllers can handle a maximum of 2048 cylinders

(but I don't think there were ever any MFM drives made with

even close to that number!).

WRTPRC - cylinder to start write precompensation. If your drive doesn't

need write precomp (almost none do), then enter a value larger

than the last cylinder.

RCTSIZ - size of the Replacement (i.e. Bad Block Replacement) and Caching

Table. From the structure of the RCT, I believe this can be

calculated as

RCTSIZ = (44 + 4*RBNSIZ) / 512

but unfortunately this doesn't give the values DEC uses for

their drives! You could also just use the RCTSIZ from the

closest sized DEC disk.

RCTNBR - number of copies of the RCT. I'm not sure of the significance

of this, but DEC disks always use 8.

SECITL - sector to sector interleave. The RQDX is fast enough to support

1 (i.e. no interleaving). Anything larger will reduce thruput.

SECITL is a function of the disk rotational speed, and is the same

for all MFM drives regardless of capacity.

STSSKW - delay for switching heads. I don't know how to calculate this or

even what units it's expressed in! All drives seem to use 2.

CTCSKW - delay for track-to-track seek. I don't know how to calculate this

or even what units it's expressed in! All DEC drives use 8.

MEDIAI - media identification code. This is a 32 bit value which the ROM

wants you to enter in DECIMAL, not hex! Standard values are:

RD32 - 627327008

RD33 - 627327010

RD53 - 627327029

RD54 - 627327030

The last section explains how the media id is calculated if you

are interested. If you use a non-DEC media id, be aware of two

things: (1) the ROM disk diagnostic won't work, and (2) the VMS

MSCP cluster server won't serve the disk.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Here are the parameter values for some DEC disks, and those that I've

successfully used for a Seagate ST-4097 (an 80Mb drive).

RD54 RD53 ST4097

------ ------ ------

XBNSIZ 54 54 54

DBNSIZ 201 82 99

LBNSIZ 311256 138672 156060

RBNSIZ 609 280 306

SURPUN 15 8 9

CYLPUN 1221 1020 1021

WRTPRC 1221 1020 1024

RCTSIZ 7 5 5

RCTNBR 8 8 8

SECITL 1 1 1

STSSKW 2 2 2

CTCSKW 8 8 8

MEDAI 627327030 627327029 627327029

------------------------------------------------------------------------

Media Identification Code

The media id is a longword (32 bit) value composed of five 5-bit

alphabetic characters and one 7-bit binary value. The five characters

start from bit 31 (the MSB) of the longword and are encoded as 0=null,

1='A', 2='B', etc. Only letters (and a null) can be represented.

The first two characters represent the media type (e.g. "DU") and

the next three are the name of the media currently mounted (e.g.

"RD" or more accurately, "RD").

The 7-bit binary value is the numeric part of the media name

(e.g. 32, 53, 54, etc).

For example, for an RD54 we have

D U R D 54

00100 10101 10010 00100 00000 0110110

Write this down as a 32 bit hex value and we have 0x25644036 or

627327030 (decimal).

Bob.

Formatting a known hard disk with a VS2000

Example of formatting an RD32 hard disk

>>>> TEST 70

VSfmt_QUE_unitno (0-2) ? 0 [enter the drive number of the hard disk]

VSfmt_STS_Siz........... RD32 [formatter recognized DUA0 as a RD32]

VSfmt_QUE_SerNbr (0-999999999) [enter the serial number for the drive]

[or enter a unique number for each unit]

VSfmt_QUE_RUsure (DUAx 1/0) ? [where x equals the unit number]

[enter 1 for YES, 0 for NO]

VSfmt_STS_RdMbb.............OK [manufacturer's bad block located]

VSfmt_STS_FMTing............OK [disk formatted OK]

VSfmt_STS_ChkPss............OK [check pass completed OK]

VSfmt_STS_BBRvec := x [number of bad blocks revectored]

VSfmt_RES_Succ [disk is successfully formatted]

>>>>

Formatting a floppy with a VS2000

Example of formatting an RX33 floppy diskette

>>>> TEST 70

VSfmt_QUE_unitno (0-2) ? 2 [enter the drive number of the floppy drive]

VSfmt_QUE_RXmedtyp

( 1=RX33 ) ? 1 [enter a 1 if RX33 diskette media]

VSfmt_QUE_RUsure (DUA2 1/0) ? 1 [enter a 1 for yes, 0 for no]

[DUA0 is the first hard disk, DUA1 the second,

and DUA2 is the floppy drive]

VSfmt_STS_FMTing .....OK [diskette formatted OK]

VSfmt_STS_CkRXfmt ....OK [RX33 format checked OK]

VSfmt_RES_Succ [diskette is formatted successfully]

>>>>

At this point, the disk has been succesfully formatted, and the

console command prompt is displayed.

Habe noch was interessantes gefunden:

Max Cylinders = 1024 (Grenze der meisten PC Controller)

Max Heads = 16

Max Sectors/Track = 17/34 (MFM/RLL)

Max Bytes/Sector = 512

Those were the "typical" max settings of the WD controllers

which makes for:

MFM (max) 136MB

RLL (max) 272MB

https://groups.google.com/g/comp.os.cpm/c/wHBKgrsnUII

Zitat von c900

auf dem Emulator ein leeres File mit diesen Werten generieren.

Das hab ich nicht verstanden, wie geht das?

Ich gebe in der Konfiguration eine EMU-Datei an, das ist das Resultat eines vorhergehenden Extraktionsverfahrens von einer realen Platte und hat auf dem Laufwerk des BBB eine feste Größe.